Robin Soweka

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation

Historic and Cultural Preservation Department

Oral History Program

"A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country:

The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19"

As Remembered by: Mr. Robin Soweka

Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger

Date: April 26, 2022

Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company

Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger

MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is April 26, 2022, and I am in Okmulgee, Oklahoma interviewing Muscogee citizen, Mr. Robin Soweka. I am performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled "The Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19."

Mr. Soweka, thank you so much for taking time out of your workday to be here and do this interview with me. We're going to start with some questions about your personal life and background and I'm going to begin with, what is your clan and tribal town?

ROBIN SOWEKA: I'm Deer Clan, and my ceremonial ground, Hickory Ground. But actually, I'm Tukvpvtce, but that closed down and I grew up Hickory Ground.

DELLINGER: And where were you born?

SOWEKA: Where?

DELLINGER: Yes.

SOWEKA: I was born in Henryetta, Oklahoma.

DELLINGER: Now, is this where you were living, is this where your folks were living when you were born?

SOWEKA: Yeah, south of Henryetta, Ryal community, that's where I grew up, raised, still reside down there.

DELLINGER: And that's R-Y-A-L?

SOWEKA: Yes.

DELLINGER: Ryal, okay. And so, Ryal, then, is where you lived as a child?

SOWEKA: Yes. I lived in Tulsa just for a little while, but most of my life has been around Ryal area.

DELLINGER: And growing up, who lived in your childhood home?

SOWEKA: My aunt and uncle, that's about it.

DELLINGER: And who were your aunt and uncle?

SOWEKA: My uncle, Jacob Soweka, and my aunt, by marriage, was Mary Soweka.

DELLINGER: Now, the Ryal community, was that their community? Is that where they were from, as well?

SOWEKA: Yes, mainly that area there.

DELLINGER: And do you have any siblings?

SOWEKA: I have two brothers, Richard and Lyndon. And I had an older sister that we lost back in '77.

DELLINGER: And what was her name?

SOWEKA: Her name was Brenda.

DELLINGER: And so, your two brothers are they still in the Ryal community?

SOWEKA: Yeah, they're still in the same old place, there.

DELLINGER: So, are you guys pretty tight knit? Are you pretty close?

SOWEKA: Yes, pretty much.

DELLINGER: Tell me a little bit about your aunt and uncle, like what they did for occupations, what type of work they did.

SOWEKA: Yeah, mainly seasonal work, whatever season it was, that's how they made their living down that way.

DELLINGER: And so, they were pretty much outside and working the land is that correct?

SOWEKA: Yeah, that's about right. Yeah.

DELLINGER: Now, growing up with your aunt and uncle, did you live in what Muscogee would consider a traditional home?

SOWEKA: Yeah. Back then, we had the wood burning stove and all that, 00:04:00and didn't have no electricity there for a while till later on.

DELLINGER: So, as a child, just thinking back to your childhood, what would a typical day, let's say a typical school day, what would that have been like for you?

SOWEKA: Well, where we lived in the morning, we had a few kinfolks, they would gather up at the house and we'd wait on the bus, and my aunt would see it, and she'd tell us, and we'd walk on down the road and catch the bus and go to school.

DELLINGER: And I think you had told me that the early part of your education was at Ryal Public Schools, but then when you got into junior high you 00:05:00went to a different school, is that correct?

SOWEKA: Yes, Ryal Elementary, and back then, most of the students that finished there, they went onto Graham, but there was Henryetta, Dewar, others went to.

DELLINGER: So, Graham is another small rural town there by Ryal?

SOWEKA: Yeah, about four or five miles.

DELLINGER: And so, Graham, then, is where you graduated from high school?

SOWEKA: Yeah, I graduated from Graham.

DELLINGER: What year was that?

SOWEKA: Nineteen seventy-eight.

DELLINGER: And after you graduated from high school, where did life take you after that?

SOWEKA: Well, after high school, I got married and we had a child and went to one year of school at Connors State in Warner, Oklahoma. And during the summer, I went to training school, welding, and got a job, then I forgot all 00:06:00about college, which I shouldn't have.

DELLINGER: So, you went to welding school. And what did you do after welding school?

SOWEKA: Well, I got a job, about two years, then the place closed down, and I was home on unemployment for a few months, then I got into tree work, clearing power lines for utilities. I did that for about twenty-eight years.

DELLINGER: That's a long time. What was it about that job, you think, that you enjoyed, that kept you in it for so long?

SOWEKA: Well, mainly being outside. It didn't matter the conditions back then, I was able to handle everything real good, and I loved doing that 00:07:00part. Money wasn't all that good, but you love what you're doing, that's the main thing.

DELLINGER: So, did you happen to be a tree climber when you were a young boy? Did you enjoy climbing trees?

SOWEKA: Yeah, after I got used to it, I guess. Being around electricity was a little dangerous, but you know.

DELLINGER: All right. And so, you did the tree work for twenty-eight years. And then where did your work life take you after that?

SOWEKA: After all that, I got a call here from the Creek Nation about an opening on the cemetery crew, so I applied, and basically, I got hired on here back in, I believe, it was in 2010, and I'm still here.

DELLINGER: Yeah. So, you've been doing this work for about eleven years now. That's great. So, Mr. Soweka, tell me about your family that you have now.

SOWEKA: Well, my family, we still live in the same area. I've got my brothers there, and my cousins, and where I live, my oldest daughter, she lives with me. And I have one daughter, and I've got a son, Junior, he works for the tribe, and another girl I've got, she's off as a nurse. She's not biologically mine, but I claim her as mine. So, they're all doing pretty good.

DELLINGER: Good, very good. And now, do you have any grandchildren?

SOWEKA: Yes, I have one grandson, Jacob, he just turned twenty-one, and I have one great-grandson, Kingston, he's about fourteen months.

DELLINGER: Oh, he's a baby, okay. And now, where does your grandson live?

SOWEKA: He lives in Okemah, but he works in Arizona. He works two weeks straight, then he comes home for a week.

DELLINGER: And what type of work is that that he's doing?

SOWEKA: He's in the oil field business, I believe.

DELLINGER: All right. So, I want to ask you now, I know that you are one of our ceremonial ground members here in the Muscogee Nation. What is your ceremonial ground?

SOWEKA: Where?

DELLINGER: What, what is your ceremonial ground, which ceremonial ground?

SOWEKA: Hickory Ground. Like I said earlier, on my mother's side, my 00:10:00ground is Tukvpvtce, but I grew up on my father's and them side, my grandmother and them, they were all Hickory Ground, so I've been going since the early sixties up to today.

DELLINGER: And do you know how far back your family connection is to, well, either Hickory Ground or Tukvpvtce?

SOWEKA: I don't know much about Tukvpvtce, but Hickory Ground, way back, when Chitto Harjo was around down there, having that uprising or something, my grandmother, she told me they were going on in their wagons and people were fleeing, and people told them to turn around and leave. That's a ways back.

DELLINGER: Yeah, okay. And will you please talk just a little bit about what the significance of the ceremonial grounds are to Muscogee people today?

SOWEKA: Back then, the older ones, it meant a lot more, I think. That's how most of them were raised, and they stuck with it. And nowadays, we used to listen to elders, what they tell us, but a lot of them have moved on and a lot of the younger ones and they, to me, I don't think they really know what's all behind goes on at the ground.

DELLINGER: Right. Now there's a certain time of the year when the folks who do still engage with our ceremonial grounds, that they are doing 00:12:00those traditional practices there at the ceremonial grounds. Can you share what is that particular time of the year that those activities are happening?

SOWEKA: Yeah, usually most grounds start getting ready early spring. And once they kick off, it usually lasts until sometime in October. And after that, it's time for the fire to rest up for the winter.

DELLINGER: Can you talk about that at all, the fire? I think a lot of people don't understand the significance of the fire to the ceremonial ground and what that means. Can you share anything about that?

SOWEKA: Well, something like that, I don't really like to get at.

DELLINGER: Okay, that's fine. Is there anything else that maybe you can share about your ceremonial ground, or if there's anything you can share about your ceremonial ground, that would be great to hear. If not, we'll just end things there.

SOWEKA: Yeah, well, the Hickory Ground, that's probably one of the oldest ones that was around. It's a special place. It's been there over a hundred 00:14:00years after it moved from its original place. But like I said, there used to be a lot of elders, but like I said earlier, a lot of them have been lost, most of these young people, and back then, they talked in the Muscogee language and nowadays most of it is inside talking predominantly English.

DELLINGER: Actually, I did have one other question I wanted to ask you if you can answer. I was just curious there at Hickory Ground about how many members are there today who do continue to attend ceremony there at the grounds? Do you have an estimate that you could share?

SOWEKA: On the numbers, like at the ground, I was always told never to count numbers or whatever, something like that. But ones that are going now, they've been there for a while and they're doing good, they're carrying on the traditions and all that stuff. And also, we have some young ones that are picking up the language, which is, when you hear them talk and stuff like that, it makes you feel good.

DELLINGER: Yeah, that's great to know. That's great. Okay. So, when you're not working, and when you are not engaged with your activities at the 00:16:00ceremonial ground, do you have any hobbies or interests that you're involved with?

SOWEKA: Well, I was always outside, and during this pandemic, being home and that stuff, I started, I could say, doing a little bit of woodwork, just playing around and keeping myself busy. And like I said, I'm just starting so I don't know how that'll go. [laughs]

DELLINGER: So that's not something that you've done your whole life, then, that's something you're just getting into.

SOWEKA: Yeah, I just got into that during this pandemic about three years ago.

DELLINGER: And you're teaching yourself?

SOWEKA: Yeah. [laughs]

DELLINGER: All right. Well, that's good. It's always good to have something like that, that you enjoy doing. You'll have to let me see some of your 00:17:00work one of these days. Oh, you told me you make something for RaeLynn, I'll have to check that out. I did want to hear a little bit from you, if you would share just a little bit about your work. So, you work for the cemetery crew, which is a part of the Historic and Cultural Preservation Department. Can you talk just a little bit about what your responsibilities are with that position there with the cemetery crew?

SOWEKA: Yeah. We have people, family cemetery or whatever, they call in or put in an application, and they want it mowed, some want a fence, and sometimes dead trees are there, we take them out and we just kind of provide upkeep 00:18:00on the cemeteries.

DELLINGER: And is that work that keeps you guys pretty busy?

SOWEKA: Yeah, yeah. And we also, emergency, like during funerals when they want an area, get it cleaned up, we do that, also. The last few years, it's been kind of hectic there for a little bit but was able to get by.

DELLINGER: Well, Mr. Soweka, what we're going to do now is, we're going to transition our questions, and I'm going to ask you some things that pertain to your experiences with COVID-19 and the COVID-19 pandemic. The United States is now in year three of having COVID-19 in our lives, but when, in 2020, 00:19:00so we're going to go back to 2020, when in 2020 do you remember first hearing about COVID-19 and if you can, how did you first hear about it?

SOWEKA: Yeah. Well, when it came, back then, the elders, they would foretell you some things. And they used to talk about illnesses coming, don't know anything about this, they said one of these days you're going to experience it. And I look back at that, what they had told. And to me, it refers to that.

DELLINGER: So, you're saying then, that for quite some time before we 00:20:00had the pandemic happen in 2020, that Muscogee elders were already talking about these things?

SOWEKA: Yeah.

DELLINGER: Okay. So, when the pandemic did start in 2020, it sounds to me then, like maybe you weren't even surprised by that.

SOWEKA: No, I thought back on that and just figured that's what they had been telling us about.

DELLINGER: Okay. When the pandemic did first start in 2020, what were your first thoughts about it though? Because it started, obviously, in other countries. Were you concerned or not that it would make its way into Oklahoma, and then into the Muscogee (Creek) Nation?

SOWEKA: Yeah, after hearing more about it and seeing what it was 00:21:00doing to people, and like hospital stays, really nobody wasn't allowed to be in there. So, you could only imagine how difficult that was to see somebody go through that without actually you being there but actually not being there.

DELLINGER: What were some of the initial conversations that you had with your family and friends about the virus, especially after it was here in the Muscogee (Creek) Nation?

SOWEKA: Yeah, being safe, where you're going, and just trying to take the best precautions as you could.

DELLINGER: When the local and state governments began lockdowns and shelter in place orders, do you remember how those words, just the words themselves, even, how that made you feel?

SOWEKA: Yeah, you couldn't, like normal everyday life that you were used to, didn't have the, I guess all them changes. Getting used to it was a little rough, I guess.

DELLINGER: Now, can you remember any particular, I don't know, things that happened or maybe something that you saw on the TV that that made you realize, like really realize, the severity of the virus?

SOWEKA: Yeah. Well, that was a big-time thing there. One thing, it 00:23:00was just on going, going to probably continue start seeing other stuff come up and like I said earlier, listening to the elders telling you stuff would come up, I'd look back, try to remember what all they said about stuff like that.

DELLINGER: So, in 2020, and 2021, what were some of the things that you were not able to do because of the pandemic? How did the pandemic really change life for you?

SOWEKA: Well, when it first come, our first season, I remember we 00:24:00gathered up and we talked about, and down at Hickory Ground in the first year there, we canceled our ceremonial for that year. Being around close, sitting around with each other, we thought that was taking too much of a chance. But other than that, the ceremonial, we did all the other things to keep what we had to do. We did all that, except for the dancing and stuff like that.

DELLINGER: Yeah, I understand that especially in 2020, that was a very difficult thing that our traditional people and the ceremonial people, they had 00:25:00to face that challenge of whether to continue on or not. And so, I'm sure that was a very difficult decision for Hickory Ground. In certain ways, it was a very difficult decision to make but it's the decision that you make to keep yourself safe.

So, it was a good year before the vaccines rolled out, and I'm just curious, during that first year of the pandemic, what was your plan of action to stay safe from the virus, both at home and then when you had to work? What were some of the safety measures that you took for yourself?

SOWEKA: Well, I stayed home most of the time. When I did go out, I 00:26:00was off work for a little while, trying to stay busy, or whatever, I would ride around country roads and look for plants or whatever like that. But that was hard. My main thing was being worried about my immediate family, them catching it. And we got lucky, we didn't have actually anybody really catch it and go through all that illness and sickness and all that stuff.

DELLINGER: So, your main protective mechanism was just to stay home and try to social distance and stay away from people.

SOWEKA: Yes. And like I said, they let us off work there for a little 00:27:00while, but we were on call. We had emergency funerals and stuff. People would want certain things cleaned up, and we would come in for that. We kept doing that job. And for a little while, it was like two or three days a week a funeral was going on.

DELLINGER: Now, what is there, like four or five of you guys, and you usually all ride in a truck together. So, did you continue to do that or did you go in separate vehicles? How did you guys work that out?

SOWEKA: It was recommended we take two trucks. We did that sometimes, two riding in one truck, stuff like that. But amongst us, anyway, we felt pretty 00:28:00safe. But you never knew. But you've got to count your blessings if you made it through, and all that stuff like that.

DELLINGER: Right, I'm sure that was difficult, I mean, because you guys knew you had a job to do and to take care of these cemeteries and people were passing away, that probably was maybe a little bit stressful but I'm glad you guys were able to get through that period of time and stay well. So, Mr. Soweka, I want to ask you, what is your knowledge and understanding about COVID-19 especially the effect it can have on the body, if someone is to contract it?

SOWEKA: Well, I don't know if they're ready for it or whatever, but 00:29:00something like that come, you get all these vaccines, to me, I didn't really think the vaccines would help any, but I guess they could, but I was a little leery of it, it's too soon for it to make something up and to get it ready for this pandemic and stuff.

DELLINGER: Now, you said that you and your immediate family did not get sick. So, up to this time, none of you have had COVID?

SOWEKA: No.

DELLINGER: Now, what about some of your extended family or even any just friends or even folks at the ceremonial ground, have you known people?

SOWEKA: Yeah, I've known people at the ceremonial grounds, and we've 00:30:00lost a lot of elders, a lot of knowledge. That's who they was their whole life and a lot of them were good speakers and stuff like that and we lost a lot of that stuff.

DELLINGER: Yeah, that's been really hard for the nation. Now, you don't have to say any names unless you want to, but can you just share a little bit about what some of those people went through, physically, the folks who got sick with COVID, like what some of their symptoms were?

SOWEKA: Some, they lost their taste, and they couldn't eat. And some, they would tell you they had had it, but they didn't have any kind of symptoms, 00:31:00I guess, or something. I don't know, it just varied to different people.

DELLINGER: So, how do you think the Muscogee (Creek) Nation leadership has performed throughout the pandemic?

SOWEKA: Actually, I think they did pretty good. Working through the Health Department, they had some of these trucks show up at different places giving shots and all that stuff like that. I thought it was a job well done.

DELLINGER: Okay. Mr. Soweka, are you vaccinated against COVID-19?

SOWEKA: Yes.

DELLINGER: And which vaccine did you receive, do you remember?

SOWEKA: I've done it twice. I think Moderna, or something like that.

DELLINGER: What were your side effects from the vaccine?

SOWEKA: They told me you might get soreness in your arms or something like that. I got it for maybe a couple hours and it went away and that's all I experienced.

DELLINGER: Why was it important for you to be vaccinated? Like for you personally, why did you make that decision to get vaccinated?

SOWEKA: I did that because the workplace, it was kind of required. 00:33:00So, that was my only reason behind it.

DELLINGER: Okay. So, how do you think the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Health Department throughout the pandemic, including, in 2020, they started testing, and in 2021, they started their vaccination process, and of course, they were caring for our people in their medical facilities, do you have any thoughts on you think they have performed throughout the pandemic?

SOWEKA: For something like this, I think they did a real good job. This is something new or whatever, unexpected, they didn't know all about it, but once they start doing a little stuff, like I said, going to different 00:34:00places and giving shots or whatever, they put out the work, and it was good, too.

DELLINGER: So, here in Oklahoma, and in the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, we've been in what I'm going to call a COVID lull for at least a couple months now. Things seem to be improving for people. But I'm just curious, what are your thoughts about this fact that, and I think it is a fact, that COVID-19 is never really going to go away, that COVID-19 is always going to be a part of our existence and our lives, is that something that you've given any thought to?

SOWEKA: Yeah. It's just a start of things, I believe, to me. And other things are going to start coming up, come out, like something like that.

DELLINGER: At this time, are you engaging in a life that is more similar to the life that you were living before COVID-19 and the pandemic? Are you becoming more comfortable with COVID-19 and basically just getting on with your life at this point?

SOWEKA: Yeah, the way the news is going, it's kind of slacking off and stuff, but little by little, getting back to the way it kind of used to be and stuff like.

DELLINGER: Are there any safety measures that you have been doing in 2020 and 2021 that you're sticking to, though, at this point?

SOWEKA: Well, there's something I take for myself that I was told by an elder, which was good. So, that's about the only thing I've been doing, is stuff like that.

DELLINGER: So, in saying that, that makes me think that because of the pandemic, and because we've had to be so careful with ourselves, that now, actually, something positive has come out of that for you, because you're doing something for your health, to maintain your health that maybe you weren't doing before the pandemic, did I understand that right?

SOWEKA: Well, certain things you hear about, I've done that before this pandemic, little stuff. It's just one extra little deal that I just 00:37:00kind of started doing.

DELLINGER: We're kind of getting down to the end of our interview here. And so, I've got two more questions for you. For future generations of Muscogee who may find themselves dealing with a global health and economic crisis such as the COVID-19 pandemic, what words of advice do you have for them about living with and surviving such a catastrophic event?

SOWEKA: Well, if you have an older relative or whatever, they might tell you something, and you've just got to be, after, I guess, nowadays, after 00:38:00it happened, whatever's being told, try your shots or whatever people tell you is good for you and stuff, just stuff like that.

DELLINGER: So, just pay attention and listen to what your elders are telling you, for sure.

SOWEKA: Yeah.

DELLINGER: Now, is there anything else, Mr. Soweka, that you want to say or share about your experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic? Maybe I haven't touched on something that you'd like to share, here.

SOWEKA: Well, people you hear about, people you knew what they had to go through, but like I said earlier, hospitalization, you're more or less there by yourself, and being alone like that, a lot of thoughts, negative 00:39:00thoughts, finally come into your mind. But it's just trying to stay positive and do whatever the medical people, whatever they say is best for you, try to stick by that, and stick by what your elders tell you, too, to do, to take other things that actually might help out. And if you're doing stuff like that, it's having faith that everything is going to work out. You've got to believe in that.

DELLINGER: Excellent. Those are very important and wise words. Well, okay then. I think we will wrap things up here. And again, thank you so much for doing this interview with me. You've shared some really important things, here, from your personal experiences. So, mvto, thank you so much for your time here, today.

SOWEKA: You're welcome. Mvto.

END OF INTERVIEW

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